Inside Monty’s World: Mortgages, Mentorship, and More

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Transcript

  📍 hello guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Mortgage Mavericks podcast with me Ash Borland. And today we're joined by a really great guest. I'm really excited to have him on. I actually sent him off air. It's actually weird hearing his voice because I've heard his voice so many times over the years and then seen his face and then it was just really bizarre.

Chatting to him. But what we're joined today by Andrew Montlake from Coraco. Most of you will actually know him as Monty. I know him from Monty's blog. That's like the thing I remember. So Monty mate, welcome to the show. It's an honor to be here. I've been following your work for a while.

And it's great stuff. I re I really enjoy it. In fact, it's a. Essentially, I'm really jealous of your  technical prowess and your professional setup there. We've said we'll sort something out and we'll get your, we'll get your setup leveled up for sure. I'm happy to do that.  So Monty, for people who don't know, you've got this amazing bio, which I will be linking into the show notes.

You've done a lot over your career, but for people who don't know you could just give us a bit of a Kind of a background into who is Monty? Who is Coraco? Gosh, you've got so much stuff. We're going to probably, we're going to be for just honest on this, diving into this and unpacking it in little bits.

Cause you've got such a large career that it's. We're going to unpack it, but just give us the foundation. So look, I always say, and I do introduce myself a lot as I'm a mortgage broker. That's what I do. And that's my passion. And I've been lucky enough to discover this wild magical industry that has given me so much and and I've thoroughly enjoyed the enjoyed most of the times within it.

So yeah, I. It was one of a group of people who founded Coraco in in 2009, after having worked in the industry since 1994, actually. So 30 years I've been here in the industry and yeah, Coraco has been it's like my baby, my  passion project. And I love every, I love the brand.

I love everyone within it. And I love what we're trying to do.  We were one of the first to really start to embrace social media and podcasting and all of that. And I love the PR and the branding side of it. But it's also around A passion for things like financial education diversity and inclusivity, mental health et cetera, all of that kind of stuff.

And I was honored to get involved with the Association of Mortgage Intermediaries on their board many years ago. And Somehow I seem to become chairman for the last four, four years, which again has been a real honor working with the board and the amazing team at at Amy who do so much work often unseen on behalf of the the intermediary.

Yeah, that's that's sort of me in a nutshell or you can just describe me as a failed rock star. One of the two. Why a failed rock star? I'm going to dive into that. What would mean? Why?  That's basically what I am. I, I always wanted to be a musician, rock star. Is that your background originally then?

Or is that what it was? No, that was just always my music is my passion. Yeah, I'm in a band. You can check us out on Spotify, rogue monkey. It's awful music, but but no, it's good. The band are all right. We're just about to go back into a recording studio. So that's what I'd like to do.  I love that so much.

So that's, and so what do you play if you're, what's the instrument? I'm I'm a very bad guitarist, but I'm the front man. So I sing in inverted commas.  I love that so much because my career before this was performing arts. So that's what's it. Yeah. Musical theater. So I, but I love that. 

That's so cool. And so how long have you been the band for? I'm going off PC, but I want to know, of course we probably been doing it about 10 years actually. We don't rehearse enough. And we don't do enough gigs, but but yeah, it's just great fun. It's just such a different  outlet, which is. In a stressful world, you need, I need those outlets.

And I can put my hat on, go on stage and just be someone completely different.  That's see that's very powerful thing. And that's interesting. How do you find  those two worlds? Because with mortgages, it's such a it's not a quote, creative environment, even though it can be, and we're seeing more and more of that being allowed, but you'd be saved being in the industry for 30 years.

Yeah.  That's such a strange combination to have the, it does probably explain more about the idea of you being becoming more of a public figure in the industry would explain probably that background, but  how do you separate those two worlds? Cause that is quite a, I think it's, I think what's amazing about this industry is actually, because Let's face it, the mortgage breaking industry is not something you wake up and think I'm going to be a mortgage broker.

That's what I've always wanted to do. And actually, if you look across the industry, there's so many talented people who do have either a musical background or were in bands or have sang on the voice like the mortgage mom. And, there, there are loads of talented people who for one reason or another, Didn't make it in in the music world or the entertainment world and mortgages is there for them.

So yeah, it's separating those worlds is pretty easy. I've been really lucky cause I've managed to, I always wanted to do PR marketing, advertising, that type of thing. And I've managed to combine the two worlds really nicely in terms of the mortgage broking, but also. The creative side of myself with blogs, PR, writing columns, et cetera.

So I've been really fortunate in that respect. And so with, there's so much there already to unpack is that your Monty's blog is the thing that I first knew you from. The Twitter handler now X, isn't it? But Twitter hand, the Twitter handle was a, such a very easy, memorable one in the industry.

And I always remember seeing you being quoted in lots of industry press when I was, that'd be when I was at Connell. So it would've been quite a while ago now.  What drew you, you said you had a passion for PR and marketing, but what drew you to.  The blogging side of things first, that kind of like written content, the, because you were, it sounds so strange and people who listen to this, there are people, a lot of people who listen to this are like two years in the industry, but to make, to add context, this, you were very much one of the very first people to really  lean into this way before people like even me were making videos.

It was a long time before that. So what drew you to that? I think again it's,  I've always said I'm not very good at much. I'm average at. A lot of things. The one thing I think I'm actually quite good at is writing. And I really enjoy that.  And very early on,  I, when I first joined the industry, I joined John charcoal 1994 and Ian Darby was The famous marketing director, they helped to change how mortgages were marketed generally.

And on the first day he looked at me and said, what, where do you see yourself in five years? And I said, I want your job.  I really wanted to do that kind of thing. So when I first heard about blogs and podcasts and that kind of thing. I thought there's a, there's an outlet right there for me.

And I just started writing and started publishing it. And some of the directors of the business I was in at the time, a couple of them were like, Oh, if he wants to write for shoot magazine, he should just piss off and do it somewhere else.  But others luckily said no, I think there's. There's something in this, let him do it.

So thank you for the ones that, that backed me to do it. And sooner or later that, that got  picked up as  press quotes and that kind of thing. And I had help from a fantastic guy called Dominic Hyatt, who runs Newspage now who really taught me everything that, that I knew about about being in the PR world.

And And it went on from there, really. And when social media came along, again, we were,  that, that was music to my ears. It was something that I could reach even more people with all this content that, at the time, and especially through the credit crunch, I was pretty much doing a daily blog and actually reading that back now, it's quite interesting to, one day I'll put it all in a book.

But it's like a manifesto of kind of what's happened through the day through the credit crunch of how it felt and et cetera. So yeah, I think, see, I find with content on that, that I, me and my wife talk about this a lot because we're both content creators,  the power of it, when you look back at it.

You think of it when it's little, when you think, Oh, I'm just making a video. I'm just doing this stuff, or I'm just writing. My wife's a blogger. And  when you go back, as you said, and read it, it actually can be quite emotional when it's a long time away. Like when it's been like a year, like 10 years or whatever, like I have notes, I'll find notes of things I've written on my like Apple devices that have, and they're years away, like one of the ones was like the stuff I'd written about how I thought the industry would be.

And I was like, I was so right,  but I wish I'd known how right I was going to be. Like you don't, and I think it is.  The thing that always keeps me up and people say, why do I do so much content is because you won't remember those things. You won't remember them, but you can go through them.

Like you said, that's a book just in on its own of what actually it was like, because you can retrospectively think about it. But when you're writing it, you're in it and it's quite a  unparalleled thing, really. Yeah. And I always wrote, I started writing songs when I was like 13. So I've got  just over there, I've got a book like that of all my songs, which I put together for my kids in sort of order from the age of 13 to up to COVID really.

And it's just it's like a life diary and it's really interesting. I did the same when I went traveling for a year. I've got my journal of I've just always.  I found it much easier to communicate  with the written word rather than the spoken word. It makes sense. So how then did you find that transition or in that world of, social media  credit crunch time, it was very much the era of the blog.

It really was that kind of early two thousands. And in mid two thousands, is that era of the blog when that shifts. And it starts moving to YouTube video social media did like that. How did you find that? Cause you say you found it better to put things in words. How did you find that yourself?

Yeah, I thought it took me a while and I'm still not as prolific on video. I've got face for radio, so I'm still not as prolific on video but podcasting, I instantly loved and I instantly loved doing radio as well. Very early on, I was lucky enough to my first National press gigs were five live radio.

And there's some great people. They gave me some really good advice. Like just remember it's two blokes talking down the pub. That's the best piece of advice I heard before I did a five live interview. And I just thought, yeah that's right. That's what blokes do. People want to hear, isn't it? So the art of podcasting and radio, I just love.

And the podcast format I think is yeah, I adore it. I think it's brilliant. I think you can, stuff like this, you can talk to people. Don't have to be in the same room. You find out more about people can be a bit more honest and emotional and explicit about things rather than, you got two minutes to do a little clip and et cetera.

So that whole format I really like it's the longer form  podcast and. And video format, I, I really like, I think that's the, I agree with you on that for me. Podcasting changed my life. Like I'm quite a recluse. So like people always say to me when they talk to me, they'll go, are you very eccentric or you're out there?

I'm like, I'm living. I've showed you before. Yeah. I'm like, I sit in a shed in the back of my garden with no windows and I can't remember the last time I saw someone in person let's just put that into and if it is like for me, podcasting.  I that was I agree with you with that. It was like a They'll be able to the ability to be able to connect with anybody.

And that's what kind of still, even to this day, I've been broadcasting for seven years. And to this day, it's still blows my mind. Just you, even you, like I said, you coming on the show, I've had that moment many times, not just in this industry, but in other, like I have podcasts outside of the industry where I interviewed big YouTubers and things like that.

And when they come on the show and you go, That's the person I was listening to then how this one medium, this vehicle has allowed us to happen.  And it's quite powerful. It's unlike anything else I've ever experienced it to the point where it is, as you say, I have three podcasts, four podcasts currently running.

I love it that much. So I think that it is a. But the problem, as you say, I don't know how that translates into the shorter form. So I'm not a massive, a lot of my clients will do shorter form content, but I don't like that content myself. I struggle with that. Yeah. I, yeah, I struggle sometimes. I do tend to waffle on a bit, but But yeah, you look, you're learning all the time in this industry.

And that's what I love. And, some of the new people coming up and doing this kind of thing and doing content on things like TikTok and Instagram and YouTube a hell of a lot better than I'm doing it. And it's great to, to see them do it and try and pick up tips from.

From the new people coming along. It's also seeing, as you say, I do believe, and I'm very much not trying to blow smoke up your ass here as I say, but it is like standing on the shoulders of giants. That's why it's really interesting to have you on. I've tried to get you on previously. We've always gone back and forth, but never been able to get it.

And today is really good because  as you say, it's. You were doing it right at the beginning. So I think it's this as this evolution. So how have you found that evolution over the years? How have you, what do you think is, has, is it fundamentally the same type of thing as it was when you first started? Or have you felt like it is completely.

No, I think it's completely changed. So yeah, I, I'm pretty sure we did the first.  Industry podcast. You did. And yeah, it was a bit more, you felt like it had to be more corporate. You felt like it,  it had to be just a bit more of a projection of how it would be in a more professional interview which is fine, and then I'll tell you what changed it for me actually was watching.

And I'm going to forget his name.  This is a sign of getting old. It's the male comedian who's got a talk show.  Irish comedian on BBC Friday nights. Anyway, what he does, I know the, what the I know who you're talking about,  I'll get it. Yeah we'll dub it in later. At the news show, isn't it?

He does like we can meet  where, anyway, what he does is he brings all his guests on at once, which was completely different to how other people were doing it. And he lets the banter flow between them. And I just thought that's just. Brilliant. That's genius. So I started to do that. I started to get guests on and just say, look, taking the advice.

Look, it's just. A few people down the pub, let's just chat. If you want to interrupt me. If you want to say something controversial. Do you know what? If you want to swear, I don't care. It's let's be more authentic. And that was the moment I think it really clicked.

And that's what I think where we are now and the people who do it well, like yourself, and this is what draws me to people is authenticity. And I think I can spot someone who's authentic and someone who's not authentic a mile away now. And if they're not being authentic, I don't watch their stuff. But if they're being themselves and not trying to be anyone else and just being authentic, being curious and being creative, that's what I love.

And that's where I think things have changed now. And I'm into that because I think that's. That, that, that makes content a lot more accessible and a lot more interesting.  I think that that I remember my own experiences with that. So like I said, when I was making content as a broker,  I remember my thing was I'd grown up.

I wasn't grown up. I was not really into, I'm like funny age. I'm like mid thirties where social media wasn't really around when I was a kid, but it was around when I was a young adult. So it was this kind of every, it was still cool to not like it. But it was my wife's a bit younger and was like, you need to go on this.

If you're not on it, you're going to miss out.  And. I definitely can agree with you with the shift was  when I first started making it sounds very similar to what you were saying about your partners in your firm. I worked in an IFA firm and I had two people, two directors who were very unsupportive, but the other people were very not.

It was very much like this doesn't happen here. You can't do this. We don't, this isn't allowed. And a lot of it was, this isn't allowed, the FCA and I was like, the FCA isn't, and it might, luckily my dad was in compliance. He was like, the FCA has nothing against any of this is more fear,  but it has.

In the last, that would have been  seven ish, maybe years ago when that started seven. Yeah. But just over seven, it was just when me and my wife first got together,  the change for myself from my own experience is like night and day. Like nowadays to the point where it's so extreme, we maybe need to put the genie back in the bottle a little bit.

There's a little bit too much stuff out there that like, there are times now where I'm like, people are like, I don't know why they're moaning. And I'm like, it's very obviously not compliant. Like it's really obvious that isn't a direct financial promotion  to a million people on Tik TOK. You probably shouldn't do that.

But you can still deliver great content. Authentically and played by the rules as well. And and yeah the worry is now it is a bit of a wild west out there. And some of the stuff that I do see on TikTok now is man,  how is that not? How is that allowed to go out? How is that not shut down?

So it is that you do have a bit of information overload now.  There are still some great voices. It's Graham Norton, by the way. Graham Norton. Oh, yes. And I just had to Google it. I was going to say, I was like, is he answering his emails? Yeah, great. Yeah, he does. And he brings on, that's actually a really good point.

I haven't thought about that because he brings on like mega celebrities, big celebrities, but like they all that's the magic of the show is them talking and they've never met each other and stuff, isn't it? But they're like, yeah. Yeah. And the stories just.  added and they you can see they lose themselves in I'm just talking to friends rather than the cameras on me and that's I'm gonna go down the rabbit hole of Graham Norton now because that's true I when I'll be looking at it though from a branding now perspective I love that so you you also are very involved in and you've been in like I said tv and radio so you spoke about we haven't spoke about that too much so how did you get into tv and radio and how has that impacted your  Kind of business and brand over a long period of time.

I think again, I got involved with as I say,  Dominic doing the PR side of things. And as you get more and more quoted into the national media, you just, you get more exposure and it helped that, back in the day before the credits crunch, you could.  Take a group of journalists skiing, for example, it was that type of environment.

So there was one legendary ski trip. We took the first one. We took, we took someone from the BBC.  Someone who was a money editor of the Times and various other journalists. And we had this disastrous ski holiday that everything went wrong, but it was brilliant because it was bonding. We all got on magically. 

And and again, it's just being about being yourself and  showing people your vulnerable side and just. having a laugh and that sort of spurred on from there. But the first time I did TV on the BBC was because actually the partners at the company I worked with at the time didn't want to do it really.

And they had this opportunity and I said sorry, I'll do it.  And it was a Saturday morning and I said, I'd do it on the Thursday evening and I didn't speak or eat  until I went on because I was so nervous. That nervous really? And I was awful. I was absolutely shocking.  I was waiting for the better story of and I pulled it off.

No. That was terrible. No, I was shocking. I've got that video somewhere. And it was, I think it was Georgie Washington, who was interviewing me, who is just, she's a stunning human being and, Brilliant interview. And I just remember looking at her and going, I just, you must think I'm an idiot.

She's also got this amazing piercing blue eyes.  So I was just just staring into her eyes going, Oh my God, I really want to make a good impression.  I was just awful, but  it didn't, funnily enough, it didn't put me off. It spurred me on.  And so I thought the more and more I do this then the better, and once you've got a taste for this kind of thing, it is it does.

It does leave a mark and you want to do more of it.  Yeah, I was lucky enough to have more and more opportunities, but I still get just as nervous. Do you going to say, what's the next question is, has it got easier as time gone on or it's got easier. Yes. But in terms of the nerves I get nervous.

I try and prepare as much as possible. I get nervous. And but I think that's a good thing. Yeah. The day I don't get nervous I think is the day I should go, do you know what? I shouldn't do this anymore. I think nerves are, that's an, that's actually a really good point. And like I say, very open.

Like I got nervous for this, so I luck didn't realize that it was today. So that's why. So one of my clients is called Andrew and so I just sent, I sent Andrew a link and I was like, who's late?  And then I was like, and Andrew and his both and yours is Montlake and his is Mark Marvel, I can never pronounce it.

It's like a Welsh name, but it was Andrew M and my dyslexia and ADHD brain. I was just like, yeah, it's Andrew. So then when you got on, I was like I was nervous when you came on here at the beginning, because it is, I don't think the nerves when you see, and I interviewed so many people, but when you see people who, when you're in an environment where you feel, I don't know if you still get this now,  it's whenever I'm in an environment with people who.

I've looked up to, or I feel of or people of. What I would perceive and this is the thing that I found really strange over the years is  that I perceive are powerful until I get to know them and then go, Oh,  just no, no, but yours are more look up to, when you think that, I don't know if you still get that now, like I get when I go and see people a hundred percent.

Yeah. Yeah. But what's really interesting is all the work we've been doing in the mental health, diversity, all that kind of stuff is, and the conversations I'm now having. So when I first walked into  association mortgage intermediaries, boardroom table,  you're looking around and I'm thinking, what the hell am I doing here?

Yeah. These are people who  are probably, they're running big businesses or networks. They know their stuff. They're brilliant. I've seen them on TV. I've seen that.  And.  I'm just thinking, I'm just,  what's really interesting is the imposter syndrome that I felt then. And I still feel by the way,  I've since spoken to loads of people around the boardroom tables who run companies and they feel the same. 

And that's what a lot of people don't realize is that we all suffer from our own anxieties and imposter syndrome is so prevalent. So rife through, through everyone. And it's just about learning. Your place and I know there are some discussions that you know what that's not me It's over my head, but I can contribute in other ways And I know now that I don't need to  be the font of all knowledge in every single subject Because I'll never be that and I have never been that so why put myself under?

Under that pressure and it's just about adding where, your voice is going to be relevant and accepting that, what every voice is relevant, no matter what experience you've had,  your voice is just as relevant as the guy or girl who's been running a company for 30 years.  That goes back to what you said right at the beginning, though, of this idea of, you said I'm not good at many things, but I was good at this thing and it's you're like, that's, I think the bit that people  have  get wrong a lot is that actually when you're good at one thing and just stay in your lane, you'll be respected for that one thing and you don't have to have the answers for everything else,  but that's took me a long time and I've only just about started to Get my head around that where you go when the bit that always shocks me.

And I'm sure you've had many meetings, many of these, I'm sure where  I've had like calls where I'm like really excited. Like it's like a pitching or something. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, these people, like they're a big deal. And then halfway through the call, I'm realizing  they're getting nervous that they're speaking to me. 

And then I was like, Oh, wait a minute. The power is I've got this power dynamic wrong. Like I think that I'm like, I can't believe you're wanting to spend time with me. And they're going Ash, we'll do whatever we want to get you. And I'm thinking, Oh,  and that's where that, that also though, if someone like, I don't know if you're, you sound similar.

I don't know if you are. I'm one of these people. I don't like to be the center of attention. I don't like that. So that puts me on edge even worse  because I'm like, Oh no, now they expect me to be good. I am. That's a really interesting, God, spend a whole  day on this one, but yeah, so it's I both hate and love being the center of attention.

That's. That's the oddest truth. I'm actually,  yeah I'm, I'm just a normal, sensitive, shy person really, but that's where this, I was lucky to have the Monty persona and I do call it a persona. So there were very early on, there were two Andrews in the office kept getting mixed up.

And I said for God's sake, just call me Monty.  And actually that allowed me to. When I went from admin to being a broker, I could chase the same person up as Monty or Andrew Monley, 'cause the broker and those two sort of characters developed. Monty was a fun, and Andrew Monley was, yeah, I'll try and be a bit more serious.

and and yeah so I dunno where I'm going with this now. No, I love this. This is, I, but anyway, that's, sometimes, I've been on, I've been. leading up to, going into, an awards do or something, and I've just stopped outside and I've taken a deep breath and said I've got to get into Monty now.

I'm Monty now.  And then you walk in and it's, hi everyone. And I do love that side of it. Yeah, absolutely. But also, I can sit in a room and not talk to anyone for an hour, but that easily, that goes back to your thing about being authentic. So that  it's actually weird because the first time we properly met, but with this, a lot of similarities, it's quite scary.

There's stuff that we'll probably talk about off air, but it's one of those it's quite scary because you're,  I have that. My wife always finds it really funny because she's, she always says, she's like your. You're, there's like ash ball and who people know and listen to, and they mess. And then there's just like who I am every single day, which is a very quiet kind of recluse person.

But when I'm, and my friends know me, like a couple of mortgage brokers, quite a few mortgage brokers who are friends who are like, you're very quiet and you're just like very subdued. But as you say, when you go to an event, I do become like it's not, and it's not, and as you were saying, then I don't think it's,  In unauthentic.

I think people misunderstand that it's actually just a version. It's still me, but it's a different version of the same person and you can have. These two competing  characters that, and I've always said, put a mic in my hand and I instantly change always. That's why, I get really nervous about it.

And then whether I'm on stage or doing something like this, as soon as I've got a mic and  I say those first two lines or sing those first two lines. That's it. I'm there. And I love it and I want the spotlight. That's the performer in you though. So that's that before me. Cause that's what I, cause I was recently just singing at a big band event, literally like last week.

And my godparents came and they were like, do you get nervous? And I was like, not at all. But if you asked me to go up there and just speak to them, normally, if you watched me, I was like, when the song finishes, I'm really uncomfortable because then all of a sudden the show is over and it's me,  and then I'm like, I'm Okay, now what do I do?

And I'm just Oh, I'm going to walk off. And  that's the performer in you that, that ability to be able to, because I think that if you don't, and you all know this for being a live musician. is that there is no way out. There's just through you have to go through it. You've got to continue if you mess up.

So there's this kind of like feeling of I'm good with that. I'm good in the chaos of it all, but in my day to day life, not so much. Yeah. You're obviously a proper singer, so you can carry a tune. I'm lucky. I've got a big noisy rock band behind  I can't sing. That's a whole different skill. 

That's like a try and watch me do pop. It's horrendously bad.  I love it. And Andrew or Monty got to call Andrew now. He's got me thrown out with the two different ones. We've been chatting for a while. If people  want to like, get to search you, find you, learn more about you, where's best place for them to go?

I am on, I should have prepared this, shouldn't I?  I'm at Monty's blog on on X. It used to be Twitter. You can mortgage mentor Monty on TikTok.  That's my new thing. But yeah, otherwise LinkedIn profile. I I like it when people contact me actually I've been doing quite a bit of talking to  other brokers or other business owners and just I really enjoy that  type of stuff.

It's often easier to help and impart wisdom to other people rather than manage my own business. When you've got all the personal stuff that's been brewing for the past, like 20 years or so. So yeah,  anyone can contact me about anything and there's a, I would draw people to the working in mortgages mentor scheme, which if you go to the working in mortgages website, there's a really good mentor scheme on there.

Which I'd encourage people to either be mentors. Cause anyone can be a mentor. How, however much experience you have in the industry or to see what type of mentors are out there to. To help you in your careers. That's a great a great place to look. I'll look at that. We'll put that in the is that meant the, what's the website for that?

Is it WWW in mortgages? Yeah. I'll send you the link. Yeah. Yeah. If you send me the link, we'll add that into the show notes. So it's on the blog and we'll also add it into all of these because I think these type of programs, I think are really important. People just helping each other out and doing that way.

I think it's a wonderful idea. I love it. Once  you made it, it's been a real pleasure. Like I've loved it. Great. Anything else you want to add to the show before we close it off? No, just yeah, no, love. Love your show. Love, love what you're doing. And yeah, if anyone else wants to do a podcast or get one going I hate the competition, but I love the competition as well. 

The more voices the better. Yeah. Come on. I love it. That's absolutely great. And I'll give you the a hundred pound for paying for saying that you like my show at the end.  Yeah. If you could, I need that this month. I'm sure you don't  guys. Thanks so much for listening to the show and I'll see you in the next episode.

Okay. Bye.